Tue 9 Jan 2007
When in Rome do as the Romans do
Posted by 馬先生 under Learning
The Cantonese have an idiom 入鄉隨俗 jap6 hoeng1 ceoi4 zuk6. Living in Hong Kong, I expect people to speak to me in Cantonese. When you are in Australia, I’m happy to speak to you in English. I came to Hong Kong with the mission to improve my Cantonese, everyday I wake up hoping that tomorrow I will speak that slightly bit better. When others don’t agree with my dreams of advanced fluency, we have a big problem. It costed me thousands of dollars to leave my comfortable life-style in Sydney to embark on my Cantonese dream.
I speak to my wife in (only) Cantonese and I live with my parents-in-law who only speak Cantonese. I only watch Cantonese TV and only speak English when I teach English to the locals at an English language school. Teaching English now means I cannot use 100% of every waking hour speaking Cantonese. So every minute in which I can speak Cantonese is valuable to me.
I go to McDonalds and do the talking (Cantonese), while I’m talking to the girl she looks at my wife and ignores me. If I’m talking to you, why would you look at my wife? Of course I understand what you are saying. Suddenly my blood pressure rises and I blast out in less than polite Cantonese.
The receptionists at my school keep arguing with me that they should have the right to speak English to me as I’m an English teacher. Every day I say the same thing over and over which still doesn’t sink into their brains 入鄉隨俗 jap6 hoeng1 ceoi4 zuk6. What makes me angry is when one of them purposely pretended not to understand any of my Cantonese when spoken to. I am paid to speak English and I don’t see any benefits by speaking English to the locals when I’m not teaching. Just to make me angry, some purposely speak even faster to me in Cantonese and then say in English “see you couldn’t understand me, I have to speak English”. These are the same receptionists who speak Cantonese to me when they are in desperate need of teachers, but speak English when they think I can be taken advantage of by teaching them free-of-charge. These receptionists have made fun of my Cantonese simply thinking no one could possibly want to learn Cantonese and be honestly serious about it! I have spent nearly 2000 hours learning Cantonese and was ridiculed and made fun of my accent or when I say something and my tones are wrong. They think that I shouldn’t be making mistakes at all after 1 year of study. These are not the sort of mistakes that one could mistake for a swear word or dirty word, but rather simple verb mistakes or incorrect grammar. In fact, I get lectured that Chinese is so easy because there is no grammar.
I teach English, I’m very tolerant of Hong Kong people consistently making errors, having incorrect intonation and poor vocabulary. I never make fun of my students speaking English. I asked some of my students if they would feel upset if I laughed at their English, and of course everyone said they would. Though these student’s couldn’t understand why I would be upset about people flattering or laughing at my Cantonese.
I once was lectured by an Indian who spoke fluent Cantonese on my pronunciation of a word 傳教士 cyun4 gaau3 si6 (Missionary). I was told not to speak unless I was sure on the tones. I might as well never speak because I’m bound to make mistakes.
Yes, you may think I’m rude. Simply being polite or kindly asking someone to stop speaking English does not get you anywhere. The people I have spoken to think its a joke that someone would learn Cantonese and will always revert to English if you give them the opportunity. When I see a migrant in Australia, I tailor my voice so they can understand both in speed and vocabulary. Isn’t it quite normal to speak slowly to a learner? However, Hong Kong people that I’ve met speak to me at full speed with advanced vocabulary all the time- I must constantly remind them I’m not native every 30 seconds.
I know my Cantonese is far from perfect, but I hope this time next year I will have reached some level where I can comfortably say I am proud of my achievement.
January 9th, 2007 at 2:21 am
Milan, I just find if funny though, ‘cos I have a draft post which is going to be out this week, and it has the same title as your post! Of course, the content is completely different.
I kind of understand your frustration. As I have replied to your comment in my blog, make sure you find some friends to hang around with, those who want to see you become successful.
As a side point, remember many Hong Kong people desperately want to learn English, as you want to learn Cantonese. They just don’t have the luxury of traveling around the world.
January 9th, 2007 at 2:46 am
It seems rather common for Cantonese speakers to look down on their own language and wonder why one is not learning a more economically relevant language, like Mandarin, instead. There was a recent poster on the CantoDict forums who seemed to epitomize this. It’s all very unfortunate, I think, since Cantonese is still a beautiful language.
January 9th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
I thought by teaching English to Cantonese locals would mean you need to speak at least some Cantonese? If you conduct the lesson entirely in English then i assume the level of English of these locals is advanced. However if say the level of English in the class is beginner-average then a lot more Cantonese will be required to explain concepts/meanings/etc. This will prove valuable for yourself to engage in Cantonese conversation within a work environment! By explaining things in Cantonese would mean you have to bring up all sorts of words and grammar to get the message across. I liken it to that Cantonese teacher from the you.tube videos on your blog that is explaining English terminology in her classroom. She is using about 80-90% Cantonese. Cheers, Richard.
January 9th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
HK culture is extremely rude, so when in Rome…
January 13th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
I perfectly comprehended your feeling after talking to you yesterday. I can understand your Cantonese when you talk to the waiters if I pay attention to your conversation. Other Hong Kong people who cannot understand your Cantonese is probably not patient enough to guess your meaning. I am sure your Cantonese is much better than some Mandarin native speakers. Those who laugh at you possess poor analytical and interpretation skills. They haven’t thought that if their listening skills of Cantonese are good enough, they should be able to understand whatever people speak in a slightly different accent. Therefore, don’t feel being dispised by the people whose abilities are much inferior than you. What can they be proud of by speaking fluent mother tongue? Everyone even the insane one is able to speak fluent mother tongue.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Welcome to the real Hong Kong.
Don’t expect to make much progress fast with your Cantonese. I have been and gone through all what you have. Especially at Park n Shop when I spend all my time in front of the checkout counter with my girlfriend (Chinese) only for the checkout lady to speak to her everytime I speak Cantonese and to top it all, hand the EPS machine my girlfriend to enter the password, despite the fact I gave her the card in front of her from my wallet.
My advice is to tell your wife to take a seat while you place the order at the Mc.Donalds counter. That way the staff cannot direct their looks to your wife.
I have now told my gf to stand to one side at Park Shop when we are packing our backs. The ironic thing is, now when I speak in Cantonese to the shop assistant, they try and talk in English and we end up with “deliver tomollow ok! No deliver today la! Pidgeon English at its best !
January 27th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
hey dude, don’t get demoralised. please continue your efforts so that u can speak it with pride in the near future!
why is it the people end up speaking to you in english? do you not look like chinese? (i think u look chinese.) I would assume any communication would be in cantonese at the onset, since it is in hong kong. my experience, in singapore, is that people may not talk to me in chinese language/dialect because they assume i am not chinese and starts talking to me in other languages like english (usually broken or pidgin). to show my displeasure, i reply in mandarin or cantonese, or when in a foul mood, i ignore them totally and get someone else to serve me. i wonder why i am so rude….because of my cantonese blood? haha!
January 28th, 2007 at 1:54 am
Hi bernard, actually I look mixed tending towards Chinese (especially living in HK people will think I’m an ABC when I open my mouth). Some Chinese are ignorant and think I look 100% Caucasian. I think they need to get their prescriptions checked on their glasses. Though, for every 300 people who speak to me in Cantonese, there is at least 1 or 2 heroes who insist in English (perhaps thinking they are doing me a favour). I will reply with 你啲英文咁叻咩? nei5 di1 jing1 man4 gam3 lik1 me1?
January 30th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Ithink you should move to Guangzhou, where english is pretty much nill. Unlike the mishmash of people you find in Shenzhen, the Guangzhouers will be nothing but helpful, impressed and so pleased that you chose to speak their language that they feel is being marginalised.
I lived there for two years and while I personally focused on Mandarin, I naturally picked up some particularly useful cantonese and I have never been misunderstood
Pssst, BTW, Guangzhou it’s not deserving of it’s poor reputation. That’s a myth perpetrated by the small clique of locals that don’t want it to turn into the next Shanghai.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
It looks to me as though I am about to venture down the same path as many of you, and it’s good to know in advance that I will not be the only person to have felt that way! When I was in HK last year to meet my boyfriends family (Chinese), I didn’t just find that their opinions were limited to the pronunciation of their rather quick mother tounge, but more rather they are very blunt in general. There is not much of a sugar coating on anything, and I guess that could be because they don’t have to. This could be coming from a naive New Zealander with a country population half of that of the city, but really, the whole six degrees of separation doesn’t really come into play. A spitfull word said at work or to a customer is not really going to come back and bite them on the bum when tey see the person at the pub/cafe/out shopping/playing sport etc etc…so if it makes them feel better.
I have to say that although I hated how the tiny bit of cantonese I knew at the time was completely over thrown by the two or so words that my boyfriends family knew - and persisted on using everytime they saw me! - I can understand that they would want to learn a language that is accepted in so many more countries - even in their own - even to the point of forcing the unaware native speaker to give some acknowledgment that they understand what is being said to them.
All that said, the cheeky little buggers are obviously aware of what they are doing in your case so I would stick it to them and refuse to speak in anything but Cantonese! If they don’t play the game and the message doesn’t get through then I highly doubt that the “Foreigner” will be to blame. If they do start to speak in English then good for them but remember to always answer in cantonese, it will not only do your brain some good to translate but also prevent you having to speed speaking in a language you are trying to perfect.
May 8th, 2007 at 8:15 am
When they speak English to you, you should reply in Cantonese that you dont understand what they are saying. Ngor mh sik
July 11th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
I have been trying to learn cantonese for the past 4 months, and i still havent gotten the smallest phrases right yet. 3 friends i know can guess what i am trying to say, and help me out, but my boyfriend is very strict with my pronunciation and tones, and says that i should learn something else at times. i am glad to have read your view of life in hk, and i think i dont want to go there to try and get better with my tones and such.
all i have to say is, keep trying and dont let the ones putting you down get to you. if there is atleast one person who you can talk to that understands what you are trying to say, then that is good.
November 2nd, 2007 at 7:53 am
What a nightmare! I haven’t tried Cantonese in Hong Kong yet so I can’t comment on that, but in Japan and China, when people replied in English, I just simply became rude and would persist in speaking Japanese/Mandarin until they stop speaking in English…..
January 16th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Yeah, just keep speaking in Cantonese and say you can’t speak English. Simple as that…
April 16th, 2009 at 3:15 am
sorry buddy, but people laugh at accents all the time in cantonese not because of the accent itself but when you get a bit wrong you say something totally different, which doesn’t make sense at all, unlike english where accents don’t really affect the words as much.
don’t fret though, at one point you will have fluent cantonese with a very slight accent and people will be amazed.
i have a caucasian teacher who lives in the us and switches to cantonese with her husband when people start eavesdropping on her conversation, and i have a friend who speaks cantonese fluently who’s also caucasian, and believe me it is not an easy journey
and about the accent thing and people pretending not to understand, again it’s a language specific thing, it’s pretty hard to understand accents in cantonese. i still have to try really hard to understand people from china because of their heavy accent and different vocabulary. think of it like a french person listening to a quebec french person talk, it’s not impossible but can be quite difficult depending on how heavy the accent is.
people in hong kong have lived in a colony and gotten used to the routine of “see white guy, switch to english” so it’s kind of like a reflex for some people.
have some fun though, i know if i weren’t born speaking cantonese i would never be able to stand learning it from scratch, so you’re already way ahead of a lot of people
January 30th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
I totally understand what you are saying. 100% and I empathise with you. I’ve been through all of these experiences before too. I speak fluent Mandarin (only just started Cantonese) and they look at my gf but I’ve trained my gf to say to them ‘why don’t you speak to him in Chinese!’.