Sun 30 Aug 2009
I hate when people tell me “your Cantonese is very good” but say it in English. Finally, all my built up frustration over the years can be explained by this video…
A while back, someone on the Cantonese learning forum described:
There are two Hong Kong’s.
Hong Kong (香港,香講) and Hong (m) Kong (香唔港, 香唔講).
“Heung Gong” (香港,香講) is “the HK that speaks to you in Cantonese”. You’ll make friends and speak Cantonese with them. Heung Gong (HK) people mostly live in Kowloon, the New Territories, Shenzhen and Guangzhou.
“Heung (m) Gong” (香唔港, 香唔講) or H(m)K is the HK that won’t speak in Cantonese to you.
Heung (m) Gong (HmK), is mainly located in certain parts of Central and in the offices of foreign capital firms. HmK’ers generally speak Cantonese among themselves. You’ll hear them joke, smile, laugh, greet and talk in Cantonese. But not to you.
They’ll speak “about” Cantonese in English. But not “in” Cantonese to you. To everyone else, yes, but not to you.
Some when they speak “in” English “about” Cantonese, will claim they’re speaking “in” Cantonese. You’ll notice it after a few experiences. Don’t get fooled.
“Heung Gong” (香講) people will accept you, speak Cantonese to you and welcome you. It’s heaven. Many can’t speak English and have no interest in English at all. They’ll talk “in” Cantonese. There’s no problem, no insults, no exclusion.
Hong Kong
September 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
An amusing video which certainly gets the point across. Cecilie deserves a lot of credit for her continuing promotion of the Cantonese language, as do you and your wife through this site.
That fellow,Chris Lee, sure plays a mean set of bagpipes at the end of the video. Thanks for posting it.
Neil
September 13th, 2009 at 6:36 am
Great post. I’ve found the same thing here in Seoul, South Korea…those speak to me ‘in’ Korean, and those speak to me ‘about’ Korean.
I’ve had similar experiences as well — the further I get from the city, the more authentic Korean is spoken to me.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:09 am
In relation to your question, I think Caucasians can learn Cantonese, or at least some can, in the same way that some Cantonese speakers can learn English.
Of course, there will be a range of skill levels. Some Cantonese speakers will never learn English, some will speak it well enough to get by and some will become excellent with near native accents, especially if they start as teens. (The suggestion that average Chinese IQs are some 5 points higher than Caucasians might well translate into more Cantonese speakers being able to speak English.)
The problem for most Caucasians is that there is just little incentive to learn a language that is seemingly irrelevant … their loss.
November 1st, 2009 at 5:13 am
When I get to HK I’ma just say 我唔讲英文。你讲西班牙话吗？
December 27th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I couldn’t watch the video due to a problem with my computer. But I read your text and agree and sympathize 100 % with it. And I think it is more or less the same throughout “yellow” Asia (I don’t mean that pejoratively, I am just trying to be clear). I have certainly met with it in Mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong.
One way I have of going around it is to pretend that I don’t speak English so that I get a chance to speak the local language. I am French and people here believe what they have heard before, namely that French people either don’t speak English, or refuse to speak it even when they know it (bye the way, it is not true…).
I don’t mind speaking English in Korea because I don’t speak any Korean, but why should I speak English with Chinese people in China while my Mandarin is fluent and it is the official language, and while English is not the other party’s first language, and not even my first language ? Isn’t it silly to both resort to a third language when I have one in common with the other party, namely his/her mother tongue, and a second language to me ?
Another solution is I think to refuse interaction with those people who refuse to interact with you in the local language. Those people are just trying to show off or feel good about themselves, they don’t care about your wish to improve your local language abilities, and they are not your friends. They, who are so keen to look westernized, are also showing their ignorance of generally accepted good manners in the West, where you should not try and impose a language on other people, and should indeed answer in your own language if foreigners are going through the effort trying to speak it, even if you master their language better than they master yours. It is a kind of courtesy. Answering back in the other parties’ language just shows your impatience and rudeness. I think everywhere in Europe, well-bred Europeans will answer you in the local language if you try and make the effort of addressing them in it, not in English, even if they know it. This is the way we view things in my country.
However the Chinese people I have spoken to about this don’t understand it this way, and point to their desire to use English whenever they get a chance. If so be it, why aren’t they more active to find people whom they can only communicate with in English because there is no other way ? Why should it be their way ? They also think that you should help them speak more English, or help them not to forget it. Why should you be there to help them, and not the other way around ? Especially in their country. Why can’t they distinguish between the people who don’t know how or want to speak Chinese and the others ?
Yet another solution is to pretend you come from a country whose language is unlikely to be known to them, say Moldavia or Estonia…
And, if people still insist, just answer yes or no to any question, especially the open questions… People will soon think you are stupid and stop addressing you at all ! I have tried this to have fun one day, and it just works great ! I am sorry for the very nice people I played this trick on !
And there are still plenty of elderly ladies and gentlemen around. They are lovely people, with plenty of time, they have not been “globalized” yet and don’t speak any English at all. You should for their company and help in priority. Seize the day, because in a few decades they will have been wiped out.
January 9th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Here, I want to give some comments in Cantonese:
唉!連自己O既母語都睇唔起，怪唔之得香港人D中文咁差啦!!有奶便是娘呀嗎!!!!
香港有今日，都係拜呢堆洋奴所賜，抵死抵死!!!!
January 28th, 2010 at 3:54 am
I had the same problem in Japan, especially in Tokyo. I had to basically start a fight to get them to speak to me in Japanese.
After a couple of months, I did what the other commenter did too. Pretended I didn’t speak English! Just say you speak French… almost never backfired
August 4th, 2010 at 5:31 am
LOVE THE VIDEO!!!!! its really whats happening in Hong Kong right now. Def. will speak my native language to foreigners now! But i wonder how many expats actually would like to learn cantonese?
November 1st, 2012 at 4:50 pm
I have this general frustration that I’ve lived here for 20 years almost and still don’t speak the language. My girlfriend is from hk and I just think it is about time to learn the language. However, may I add that although I speak several languages fluently due to my multicultural background - I am not a good language learner - in fact there’s nothing worse in my opinion than learning a language… But I have a bad conscious and so I want to give this a real try.
But, and it is a big but… I constantly stumble upon the fact of purpose (I’m a big fan of purpose) … what is the purpose if even locals don’t want to speak to you in their own language? Jobs now require Mandarin…
How can I overcome this?
What I dislike the most is sitting somewhere revising sounds by myself without context only to not loose face in front of a tutor…
Maybe Cantonese gatherings could help - a beer and some dices or something on a regular basis with people trying to learn the language with you…? Even better is there some form of activity that has a use where I can practice the language at the same time? The language as a tool as opposed to the focal point …
Really want to make this work somehow and overcome this sense of uselessness!
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:20 am
@Jacob: I don’t think Cantonese gatherings are going to help. I reckon you would do better with structured learning approach that pushes 15-20 new words per day into your brain. Yes, it’s boring.
Then meet up as many locals as possible who are genuinely interested to be your friend and not to practice English.
Once you get better, you don’t need to practice, you just use. Mainly the reason why you can’t communicate/speak in it is because you lack vocab.
I learnt most of my Cantonese without context and it was boring and tedious.